Angela Montijo, LMSW, PPSC is a relational facilitator, youth justice worker and spoonie with a podcast called Coffee with a School Social Worker.

In this episode, we're diving deep into Emergent Strategy, Liberatory Leadership and the transformative power of personal and collective advocacy. Listen in as we unpack the nuances of speaking up, embracing trouble-making, and fostering collective action.

This blog post includes the episode links and full transcription. 

Listen to the episode below:

You can access the podcast episode HERE (available on Spotify, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts).

TRANSCRIPTION

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, feel, noticing, happen, conversation, learning, talk, students, organization, emergent, social worker, present, fucking, remember, share, world, shit, told, school, pay

SPEAKERS

Petra Vega, Angela Montijo

Angela Montijo 0:00

hello hello everyone and welcome to Coffee with the school social worker podcast. I'm your host Angela motivo and today is a special episode for a number of reasons. This is the 10th episode and officially the end of the first season of the show. We also have over 100 followers and I don't have a soundboard but I'm gonna do it myself. We're grateful to have y'all and I'm joined by Petra, I know Petra Vega. Today I'm joined by Petra Vega, who is a liberatory leadership coach. emerged and strategist facilitator and radical social worker who weaves together an anti oppression approach to healing and playfulness into who and how we lead. Better uses she her a pronouns, and she's a queer, black Puerto Rican from a tiny town in upstate New York who after years of being told she should be seen and not heard at home and in the world decided to reclaim her voice. After learning about the multi layered systems of oppression that were operating within and outside of her. Fifth, I began doing the inner and outer work of questioning, healing and disrupting I know that's right. As the founder of create more possibilities LLC veteran helps marginalized nonprofit leaders in transforming the self doubt that is getting in the way of them leaning in a way that feels good and for them in their team. Petra, I'm pretty sure I met your work through a targeted ad on Instagram to one of your play shops, and I've been such a massive fan that since then. I'm personally so excited for this conversation because I feel like we could talk about intersectionality about liberation about emergent strategy about school social work, obviously, play like so we're just gonna go wherever the wind takes us. All right, so first of all, welcome. How are you? What's excited? Thank

Petra Vega 2:18

you so much for having me. I'm excited to go in any of those directions. It feels like a playground and are we picking up? Is there like a pail? Is there a bucket? I'm a swing kind of person where we swimming too. So I'm here for it.

Angela Montijo 2:31

I love it. I love it. I do have an introductory question. Because I have been in a debate a years long debate. About and I need I need help settling it and I've got to ask you as the resident New Yorker in the room, what actually is upstate? Is it anything above the island? Or is it like way, way up north like you told me What's up?

Petra Vega 2:59

Oh, I love this. I think anything and I'm also geographically challenged, but I think anything above anything above Yonkers, and like I feel like Yonkers is like in the gray area. I really am like Upstate is like anything outside of the direct New York City. area. But I'm like, probably that might be a gray area of like Yonkers and maybe Westchester kind of up there. But for me, I'm like it's got to be at least two hours outside of the city.

Angela Montijo 3:28

Okay, and that makes perfect sense to me that actually that makes a lot of sense. I feel like I'm in that I'm in agreement when I came here. What other what is the other camp or what are the other the other camp is literally any just, if you go above the island, it's upstate New York and I'm like, but it's,

Angela Montijo 3:47

I mean, sure, technically Sure. Like me, that's not what it's referred to as so it's just I don't know. But then, you know, I don't know the things I'm not from New York. I'm just so just go with whatever else. Oh my gosh, so I'm really curious about like, I mean, right, right out the gate. I'm really curious about what has shaped your journey. What have been some like pivotal moments that was like, set you off and you're like, I gotta reclaim my voice. I gotta do something here. I gotta make some changes.

Petra Vega 4:30

Okay, so I think my my earliest and then one that I'll always name is like my first big event in my life that shifted the trajectory is that my an undergrad I really wanted to be initially a guidance counselor. So like in this whole social work kind of realm. I wanted to be a guidance counselor. Because I had a really fantastic guidance counselor middle school. That was like really important to me. It was like, let me do that. And so I did the thing where I was like, Hey, you want to be kind and talented? You got to learn how people's brains work consensus is Intro to Psychology class. And I did not do well at all. And I was like, I'm a pretty good I'm a pretty good student, right? Like I try really hard. I was like, oh, okay, am I getting that maybe that's not for me then like that's the flag that I kind of took. And then as part of like a general education credit, I had to take what they call diversity courses. And the one that I decided to choose was this intro to women's studies course, which introduced me to like racism and sexism and heterosexism and head on over tivity and all this shit. I was like, What is this? Like? What are all of these words that clearly explain to my experience and the things that I saw as someone growing up and like West bumblefuck a very tiny white town and understanding that like there are class differences there are there's ways in which my sexuality is to hear from my friend and I just didn't have any language to it, right? But this class gave me all of these words and was actually like, good you know about the personal is political, like all of our lived experience, actually very much directly relate to the policies and practices and laws that are shaping the world and like, history isn't just a thing of the past. But like, it's we're always creating history, and the future is always here. And I feel like I owe that class so much. And just having the language in terms of like, there are things that I felt like inside of me that were off, but I couldn't I just couldn't I didn't have the language for it. And so that class really gave me the language. And then it really gave me the opportunity to have examples of like, what does it look like to kind of shape some of this shit, right? That it's not just like, we are passive receptors. It's not just like, I because I'm a woman. I just get catcalled on the street because I'm poor. It just means that I don't get opportunities. Yeah, right. That it's like, I get to do something. And so immediately I was like, y'all this racism outside right and I was just like so draining racist doing anything it's so very much empathize with the people who even maybe coming into social work or even school social worker with like, Y'all there are problems the system is broken and like what do we do about it? Because I very, very much know what that training was like, that's where I started to. Yeah, I

Angela Montijo 7:00

really can resonate with that because it was a I didn't mess with school like at all I think I was a categorically mediocre student well into high school. And then I went to a really, really small school where instead of like, I think it was like world history. We got sociology, like it was like, intro to sociology. And that was the first class that like made sense to me. We learned about the various things that you're that you're mentioning. And you know, being from Inglewood. I was like, all of wow, I really felt like like the wool was pulled from my eyes. And that was that was a massive shift for me. And then all of a sudden, I was like, wait, I can learn more about this. College isn't College is an option. Wait a minute. Wait, wait. I don't have to be a team parent. Wait, I don't have to get into crimes like wait, I can do something. Different. There are options available to me. So yeah, that that was that was pretty big for me. And then it's just been it's been unraveling ever since. But I but I think going back to that example, that's why I'm so big on like, education as liberation education as liberation like that is the guiding force for us. Like the more the the more that we know is like the better that we can do. And I know even sometimes I'll be like, but sometimes I wish I could be ignorant. Sometimes I wish I could another things because it's like so heavy and they want it to stop. I can't unknow the things I don't know if you ever feel that way. Um, it's just a lot. Yeah,

Petra Vega 8:58

I think I think the moment that I've been having recently given what we're learning and seeing in all the like, holding around what's happening in Palestine and all of us bringing our attention to it that I'm just like, wow, there's been genocide and destruction and oppression. And calamity and like, unnecessary Can I cuss to start cussing on you? Oh, can

Angela Montijo 9:21

you already did.

Petra Vega 9:22

All right. Oh, shit. Okay, gotcha. Okay, just just just unnecessary like function. And I'm just wondering, wow, and that is just, it's actually the norm. And I think I just for me, it's been so interesting to then look back at my me as a young person, right and being like, even though my parents, I was raised by my grandparents, they weren't super political right. But again, the thing about oppression and injustice is like it's gonna touch you whether or not you know the language for whether or not you know about it, their effects of it, right and I'm just like, Oh, our migration story and our movement story and the ways in which certain things happened and trauma erupted in my life and my family, but I'm just like, oh, all of this stuff has been happening in the background. And I was just a kid and I had no idea and so for me, it's just been a moment of like, I'm seeing my childhood self and my childhood experience in a different way that I'm like, Wow, all of this stuff was happening in the backdrop of their lives to they didn't even know probably, I could comprehend, or that the only thing that felt feasible was like, let me just focus on what like this kid, like this baby Petra, like and like just going to work and I can't even fathom any of us other staff. Yeah, yeah,

Angela Montijo 10:32

it reminds me a lot of I've recently learned about this. It's like a skills development, like concept by like DCM yet though where I like how it's like a diagram. It's basically like a Russian doll effect. Where there is like, let me let me grab it so I can at least describe it. So like, essentially, there's a difference between like power, over power under the ideal is like a balance but that has not been a thing for as long as we can remember. And what you're getting at is like that very, like survival denial indifference mentality where that's, that's what it's a safety thing. I'm not like putting anyone down. It's a safety thing for a lot of people. I can think of my own mother who like had she just had to survive and she could not be occupied mentally, physically or in any other way, by all the external noise because her thing was like, I need to feed my children. And that is the priority no matter what. And so, when we're stuck in that though, it's easy for people to be like I've never been oppressed. I've never experienced that or if there is oppression, but it's not my problem. So that's like the very inner layer of the Russian doll. And then if we add another one, there's like distancing or confusion. So in that distancing is like people who judge who pass judgment and they say something like, oh, they people criminals shouldn't resist arrest. So it's like almost legitimizing the state, or militarization, criminalization, right, because it's a again, it's an it's an othering or it's a confusion of like, they're just being overly sensitive. It's really not that big a deal. So it's like all these layers, one after another after another. The top layers are around like solidarity and Ally ship and being an accomplice, but you don't just magically get there. It takes a lot of work, a lot of educating, a lot of unlearning relearning to get to a place where it's like, we acknowledge that we have a responsibility to heal and to contribute to collective liberation. And like, I am more than my own identities and to have a right to rest like it's that yes, and yes, and of especially as like, you know, we're probably likely going to talk about it in emergent strategy of like, things are so much more complicated than we realize. I just said a whole lot. Yeah.

Petra Vega 13:34

I think I think the one piece in there that I think is interesting, right, and part of the alarming that you're alluding to, is that we think like okay, what not my monkeys like all of these issues are not my monkeys and I actually have a more immediate focus. But I always think about like, we're already going to, like from then I can imagine even myself saying this, like, Well, I think that if we were to operate in as a collective or to be like, how do I share my grievances with other people who also likely have grievances because we are, live and awaken the world that I think we imagine that that process and in communicating in organizing and creating decisions together and trying to move that energy somewhere it takes longer, but I'm like, we're still gonna spend that time being hell exhausted at work. Hello, frustrated with our condition? hella hella angry at someone and somebody that I'm like the time is going to be the same. It's just around like, how do you pay? How do you use your time which like emergent strategy tells us what you pay attention to grows, like, where are you putting your attention to? Right? Is it just like, I there's nothing that I can do and I was like, Well, that may or may not be true depending on all of these are the factors that were kind of naming. And again, I think it's like, what layer of this doll are we in? And do we even know that we're in type one?

Angela Montijo 14:51

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm also curious, like, I know it's so and so very impossible to pick but like, Do you have a favorite principle? Emergent strategy principle? million dollar question. I mean, I know I know. Okay,

Petra Vega 15:09

well, I think I think it would be this and it's funny that you're asking so I thought about this one and not again, this is very it's the this approach is like anti hierarchy. But I think that the woman for me hugs all of the others that like if you can only choose one and you've come to my place I've you know, we've talked about all of them, but if there's only one that you can take that I think people people may not see the textured pneus in it is the one that says less perhaps more presence than I think all of the other ones kind of touch on what do you do with people? How do you respond when the when the occasion arises? How do we build trust? Do we know how to break trust? And I'm like, none of that is possible unless we know how to be present. Right? Unless we can we know what are the things that helped me get in this place like helped me see this place? Because I think so many of us in that first part of the principle of the left prep. So many of us are like, well, we just we didn't plan good enough. Right? Like we didn't prepare for this. Like what's that quote? And I'm really thinking about like all the books that I want to teach like this, like when you had a plan, you plan to fail like not if you've got precedents on your side, right? Because that's been my experience. Like if I, if I can do enough right to be like, here's the structure here's the process. Here's what I'm coming into and having an awareness of that, but do I know like, Can I read other people's bodies right? Not in a hyper vigilant trying to keep myself safe, but like in a, I know that person is learning to read their bodies, too. Yeah, I want to be someone who can help people in that process. And so how am I doing that? Right? Like, twice this conversation is unnerving. People. Do we know how to come back to equilibrium? Or is this a place that we just need to pause? Is this a skill that we need to build and like, none of that would be possible if we didn't tune into presence, right? Like I feel like there's so many choices we can't see actions we can't even act or consider because we just don't have the price of the strike. Some of it is the reasonings that you're naming around, like there's so much of this stuff happening and you're like, Okay, let me just choose one thing, right? But then, like I named my again, inspired by merchandising and business create more possibilities, because I'm like, well, what's the one possibility that will get you more possibilities for I feel like sometimes the option that actually just gives us that option? But I'm like, what will what will allow for something else to happen? And I'm like, for me, less prep, more presence has been that I'm like, if I can just be present, like, let me give an hour of my full attention to this meeting. Let me give in 15 minutes of my full attention to someone telling me about how their weekend went. Let me give 47 minutes to being really angry. And give it my fullest energy. Wow. What can that shift me for the other people that I'm in relationship with?

Angela Montijo 17:58

Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. And it reminds me of like the, you know, going back to this, I'm talking I'm calling it a Russian doll because that's just I feel like that's just what makes the most sense. They also collapse into each other. They don't exist like in isolation. Sometimes we can go back into the smallest doll sometimes we grow out into the biggest doll. So that's what that's how it makes sense in my Casita, right. And so like, so the third Russian doll is the is like when we pass it the threshold of like, power, under over to power with is like this middle ground of like what we we socially consider empowerment and inclusion. But in that space, there's like a lot of canceled culture that can happen a lot of canceling that can happen of like, if I don't show up in a certain way. Then I'm going to like get canceled by XYZ group, or there's a lot of performance that can happen because against there's again, there's like that shame and blame and judgment and essentially, like we're replicating the very things that we want to be dismantling, which is like this weird, complicated thing. So you know, we can hear people say, like, you know, this is wrong, we have to do something about it, and they're activated and obviously we want them to be in that space, but like, to what end because that activation can also lead to burnout. So like it's a delicate balance, right. So yeah, I It reminds me very much of that. Less less prep, more present, because we're not always going to have the right things to say. And my personal favorite is move at the speed of trust. And that's just like, it just gets old. It makes me all warm and fuzzy because it's so good. And I think like above all my what I'm perceiving in the world is such a crisis of is is a relational crisis. We are so deeply disconnected and there's no way that we're going to make changes if we can't even like come to trust one another. Without that, like where are we going to move? And so I also think a lot about in movement spaces that pressure to perform and to be present in a certain way to accommodate or to, like, make other people happy when like just being present is enough. That's like a weird tension there.

Petra Vega 20:47

Yeah, gotcha story to that point. Yes. Yeah. So thinking about feel like a cousin. I feel like they're all cousins like this is a whole family of like matches and beliefs and systems. Because in for me, like closely related movements deed of trust is related to it's a conversation in this room that only these people can have find it. And I just like getting in terms of the play and they agree and the curiosity I'm always like, what should we be talking about? Like like we have an agenda, but what should we actually talk about? And the new named around performance? I wanted to share the story about a moment of like, I think when presents converges when trust is like, a vehicle for intervention and building can like collide. I remember a time I think it was like a few years ago, like this last organization I was working at and me and the other folks in the leadership staff had to do like a report out right, like I'm sure you know, you're like, Okay, everyone share, what's the update, and what do we do, right, because we don't want to look like jackasses and we don't want to look ridiculous in front of anyone else we'd like Right? We're just like, everything's great. Everything is on detach. I'm on my timeline, right? And I'm just like, I'm not with it. I'm not with it. And so I'm sitting here listening to all of my colleagues be like, everything's great. Like we're on time, all this other stuff. And I'm like, I don't we're not we're not on time, right? I'm having some issues but I will get it together. But this this meeting is not where I'm gonna have it together. Like give me give me and so I shared that was my share out right and just like, again, thinking about like, what's the what's the presence that I need to have to be like, this is the truth within me. This feels like a truth that needs to be spoken. And I'm willing to take the consequences from this truth, right? Because about truth is that there's there's a risk associated. And I'm like, That's the risk of change and healing. There's a risk. And so I share this out. And to my surprise, all of my other colleagues were like, actually, yeah, like I'm also behind. I also have some questions. And before this, because I'm someone that I'm like thinking about moving the speed of trash and I'm like, Okay, how are we always building trust? I was like, Y'all, why did we lie to each other? We agreed that this would be a space that we will be transparent and honest with each other. And we still got stuck in it. We got stuck in the same performances and behaviors and we say we hate from other meetings. Yes, this is just That's why are we performing for each other? And that became the conversation we had around like, shoot, we did that. We said we weren't going to do that. And here we are. Now we have to talk about it. Like so. So for me, it was like, that was the conversation we needed to have it actually like whatever was on the agenda. It's gonna get done because the people that we care, and there's like, we have responsibility, and we're like ethical and committed to the work. But this is really the conversation that we needed to have around like, we made a commitment to each other. We broke that commitment, like through no fault of our own, but like what, how do we address it? How do we bring it up to life? Right, that was like this was a conversation to have. Yeah,

Angela Montijo 23:51

and like Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the thing about this thinking concept of capitalism is that time is finite, or at least that's what we're taught. Right. But the beauty of these principles is that through practice, and like through collective practice specifically, the work will be done the work will emerge, dare I say? Eventually, like it just will. And speaking of the work emerging, the work also emerges through gossip, gossiping all that. Speaking of having having, having those necessary conversations, like sometimes the cheese my like will lead to activation. Sometimes it will, like get that ball rolling, and like you're like, oh, wait, you peep that too. Like we need to have a conversation. And that's what that's how it that's how it begins, like people get stirred and like, but for a gift for like, for those reasons of working toward that liberation. We're just trying to like, you know, tread lightly and figure out like what steps need to be made and you know, I think it's, it's done with tear. I don't know where it was going with that.

Angela Montijo 25:15

I love that we're here. I need to, um, I also really want to hear about what it's like to you know, I mean, obviously, you're a social worker. What is it like to be a you run your own business? What am I saying? Business Owner? You own a business? Yeah. You're an entrepreneur. What's that like? Like? Yeah, what is it all like? That sounds like, I mean, I know that a lot of people do it, obviously. But it just in my mind, it seems like so, so difficult. So I'm happy to hear what you have to say.

Petra Vega 26:00

It is don't let anybody tell you differently. I feel like tough times in the internet. Should I have been in there like, oh, you know, your job fucking sucks, just dismissed and it's like, maybe those are a whole set of skills. Like there are a lot of skills that I use in my nine to five that crossover into my business, but also there's lots of things that do not and so there's like, it just feels like there's also like classroom learning and growth. But I think there's one thing that maybe you've heard as well that people say about being an entrepreneur is that its own self development journey, because so much of your stuff around like how you spend your time whether or not you shame or shit on yourself for how you spend your time. Whether or not people like you or engage with their stuff, like all of that stuff comes up in the process of you trying to like serve and offer this little seedling of an idea that you have. It's how I think about my businesses like these are all little seeds and I'm trying to water and I'm like, do you like this plant and like just going to meet some people that don't like your brand, like I rather burgers, you know? Like I just happen to live. And so that and getting into the process of like, how do I how do I not let those messages dictate to me that I shouldn't be doing this thing, which again, is feels like another another layer possibly around this Russian doll piece, right? That's like you're gonna have evidence from external factors that may make it seem to you that you shouldn't be doing this thing that you're thinking about that there's it's not possible for you to do it in the way that you'd like to people talk about having a bad use of my business and you're like, No, you just have to be like a capitalist and you have to like go really hard and you have to overexert yourself in order to make it happen. And I can see ways in which that has worked for some people but I think the thing around probably people that listen to this podcast and you and I is like we're not trying to take the paved way, right like that paved the way leads to all of the things that were like, Why, why are things this way? And so while there isn't that pathway, I feel like entrepreneurship has just been another. Another exercise in me like developing my voice deeper. Like me developing and taking time into like what kinds of relationships I want to have it's I think again your your point around like the moving at the speed of trust that I'm like as an entrepreneur with not a lot of time or capacity because that just that in me then I need to make choices around like well then who I want to spend my time with, right? And today that's like, as motivo I want to spend my time with those kinds of decisions. But like, as someone who runs her own thing, you get to make those right then it's not like your boss, Monica, who's like you need to be at this meeting at 9am you set these meetings, you decide how you want to talk about your offers, you decide when it is to want to do this stuff. And I think it's just provided for me just a level of ownership and agency that I didn't even know could be possible in my lifetime, which is very exciting. But also this shit is fucking hard. Yeah,

Angela Montijo 29:04

and do is definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm so you know, obviously I said already I went to one of your play shops and you know the fact that you have such a way I would say like a magical way of weaving together like anti oppression, healing and playfulness. Like the thing that you did with the filters like everyone's gonna put on a filter. I couldn't figure my now I couldn't figure mine out. And I was like, so thrilled to like, you know, be in a space where people were like playing you know, and I just, when did we I don't know why we lost that along the way to like, not play but it's just heartbreaking. I also that would also really like just to beat me up when students would lose like those those privileges as a consequence or punishment for this that or the third and I'm like, they need to play though. So like making make sense. Yeah, yeah. Why

Petra Vega 30:16

did I just get it got it goes back. To like, what do we value right that we're like, what are those hard skills is this is this thing leading immediately to an outcome? We as the this this current society, right, because I'm like we're operating in this dimension. I don't know about other dimensions but right dimension yes, that stuff is not appreciated, right? And so of course, like kids are gonna get this backlash. Of course, adults are gonna get this backlash and then even like, something as small as like a zoom filter could be like, Wow, shoot, what does zoom filter do for me? Right? Like I don't remember if the one that a place up you came to or somebody did like an avatar. Right? And I'm just thinking about, like, the person who's an introvert or does it share a lot like, how much more would they be able to share if they didn't have to look at their face on the street? Like, they could just look at this beautiful ass horse because they love horseback riding? What would they say right and to be told, yeah, we just kind of dismiss all of these things is like childish and like, it's a costume and it's not. What for me? I'm like, oh, that's accessibility. But that's like, how do we start with scaffolding and making it more possible for people to like, enter it interact and engage like, Come as you are, but then what does that really look like?

Angela Montijo 31:29

Yeah, absolutely. And I imagine that has a lot to do with like your intersecting identities, like how does that show up in the work that you do? Because I'm positive that all informs it. Literally. Yeah.

Petra Vega 31:44

I think I think kind of like I shared back when I was learning about like systems of oppression and we being able to send that identify and these these labels around being queer and like, I described myself as a radical social worker and like, Don't remove the part that talks about the group and like thank you, Angela Davis, for giving us that language around. What does it mean to be radical? And I think also being like someone who's an introvert and I was just sharing with someone that I like, have social anxiety and actually, like, public speaking is not my jam. And they were so surprised by this because I'm also someone who's like, Y'all, we got a problem. Like, I don't think that we sit but like that is a learned skill. And so when I hear people that are like, I could never and I'm like, I suppose it's gonna take some time, but I cannot I do not live in the kind of world that I can't imagine that people can change, right? And so and so what that says to me is like, Oh, how does how does what I'm talking about today? It may shift later on, and do I let that be okay, right versus like around some of the messaging you get is like a business owner. I feel like even as a person people really should not people who change are like, Oh, you're different. You change like, but I'm like, we're growing like evolution is part of the process, right? Like, we got butterflies out here that started out as well. And all that, like that's the natural way of it working with right but it's like, how, how much is change accessible to all of us right? Or like, or do we require to stay in one kind of way? So for me, that's just like, how do I show up to my life and my business round like, am I shift I might be talking about something today that tomorrow, and I think particularly as someone who I don't, I don't have any chronic illness, but I can totally feel that I'm like, I'm gonna get him. I'm gonna get him in a few years I already have like, there's gonna be like my capac my energetic capacity is super low. And so then it means like I can't I can't be having all these damn meetings, right? And so it means that in order for me to show up with the best of what I got, it's meant that I've had to exert boundaries for myself and for other people. And I'm even thinking about like, this is one person who I was doing their podcasts on and they're like, Yeah, I'd love you to come on, next week, and I was like, that's gonna be a hard pass. That's gonna be a no go for me sir. That's gonna need to be in a few months. Think about it, especially with like capitalism and sense of urgency. I was like, well shoot, like, opportunities are coming at me. Like, I find homeless thrown on the ball. I'm gonna miss them and I'm just like, I'm not agreeing to believe that like, what is for me, it's gonna miss me. Like if that's the case, but if it's a little No, there's gonna like turn people off and I'm like, oh, no, we're not finished. Okay, it's not for me. Then. It was also the acceptance with the presence that I can be, like, alive and awake to my my life that says like, okay, if I'm trying to do something, it may not be right now. So that how do I develop my own patience and how do I be able to communicate well enough that people that like I would love to do this thing with you? And also the way that my body is? Like, this is what will happen today. Yeah.

Angela Montijo 34:44

Yeah. Yeah, I so I, about two years ago was diagnosed with lupus. And just I don't know where honestly like, I was not really I have no, first of all, what even is lupus like what question marks I have stolen is why know about like, Oh, that's a that's a good one. All I know is that my hair was falling out. Like wild. I go to a dermatologist dermatologist is like, your hair and your scalp look just fine. We need to go inward. Do a blood panel and then the markers were like just out the roof. At that time, I was still a school social worker. And once I got into see a rheumatologist, she was like, You need to understand that like your lifestyle. Is making your health far worse. You either make some changes, or you're just not going to get any better. You're gonna get worse. So the choice is yours. And I was like, dammit. So really that's what like that's what prompted my departure from school social work. I definitely miss it. Do I miss the stress and the hustle and bustle of it? Absolutely not. But I named that because it's a it's a very surreal thing. I think that we're like very much conditioned to like go go go just on all the time. Just how you said like, these opportunities are coming our way like we got to take every one of them it doesn't matter how little sleep or rest you get like there's a whole saying like people don't remember night's asleep you know? It and that is just so detrimental to our health. And even further just today, I go see another rheumatologist because I'm like going to another clinic, new one getting established and all that and I'm telling him about like, you know, I've in general like the lupus symptoms have decreased. I'm not taking nearly as many steroids so that's awesome. But like you do, thank you. I was like man, I really feel like when I get up in the morning I feel like that's like I hit by a bus like I don't it doesn't matter how much rest I get. I feel just so tired all the time. Sometimes I'm like forgetting stuff. I feel pain all the time. And he's like, it's giving fibromyalgia and I was like, I was like get out of here what another ah like get out of here. You're doing too much you just Yeah, finally like you're doing too much. Telling me the whole like yeah, like, like I came here to tell now I'm feeling so attacked. Like just leave me alone. But yeah, I think I guess I'm saying this to get to the point that like, in a sense, these illnesses or diseases are blessings because they're really forcing me to pick myself over anything else. And note to school social workers, like please pick yourself over everything else. Like there's only one you and we need you. You know? So that's the that's the soapbox.

Petra Vega 38:21

Yeah, and I think about this like, how many how many of our parents and ancestors and people who have probably similar issues, right? Like I don't know anything about lupus or fibromyalgia but I'm also like, talking about stories that I've heard of people who there's like particular things that are like in our epigenetics and an ancestry right, and then people have to like fucking go right? Yeah, for those of us that maybe have either different social supports, or maybe have a little bit of access to some monies in some kind of way or some kind of like, bucket to kind of holding something that we can be like, yeah, I could do one less day of work, right or like I can, I could not take this one meeting. Right and like that, that wouldn't it shattered, like my livelihood and my sustenance but like would be so fantastic. And I just think about the ripple effect of that of like, for the for those other people that came before us. I could not do any of those things. Like I give gratitude to that too, to be like I'm taking a nap for all of us. Like for everyone who can't take a nap. Because I fucking need an app but also like how does this become I can I throw out some rays of like, made this rash like reach the people that that it needs to reach and like let it encourage people to like, say no to something after something, to let people be there for them to create communities and people to be there for that and right because I agree with you around this being like that a relationship problem, right? Just like how many of us are isolated by circumstance, by politics by whatever, that we can't have these moments of respite? Like how do we change that?

Angela Montijo 39:51

Yeah, yeah. And I wonder like, because obviously you, you mentor, BSW Msw is how much of this I imagine like you lead from this place of like, it's such an opportunity to influence right. Do you get to have these conversations with your mentees? What are those like? Yeah,

Petra Vega 40:15

so I was just thinking about this in the shower. I was washing my hair and then I'm thinking about one of my students. And how the way that capitalism kind of shows up in New York through the social work, like ours Board of Education kind of bored kind of deal is that all of us students are really, really worried about getting enough internship hours, right? And so we had a student yesterday, who homeboy was not looking or sounded well, and we're like, go do like, go home. Don't show up, go home. Right and it's just like, I wanted to finish some stuff right like all of us because we care right? Either we are well attention to we have big care we want to be do right by the people that are assigned for us to work with or we may not have those boundaries, we may not have those skills to like ask for a day, or like we're worried about this is our stake right and so it's important for me when I started this job a few months ago that I when I talked to the other person who also supervise as soon as I was like, I will lie for them. Like I rather than have a day off. I will lie. Honestly, I'm like, I don't know about y'all, but we don't get paid like students don't get paid to do all these hours. And I'm like they're already not getting paid. i They're already learning so early on and some of them are like early 20s, mid 20s just came out of undergrad. I don't want them to learn that practice here. I don't want them to say Petra was like yup. And you're happy. Granted, I was up in their yacht moguls and blamer. And like I wanted to learn that never but you damn sure not going back to you're not on your watch one example. Yeah. And I'm thinking about like, with another student as we're trying to figure out their schedule, and they're like, Okay, well, I want to make sure I see these students and I was like love that. We want to make sure we see the kids or we were assigned to and you're like okay, so it just means like this don't have lunch and I was like over my dead body. I will. I will this will and it's just like for me what those of us that have or get into these like places with like tiny pieces of power that I just like want to help us see all of these tiny places of power because easily I could have not had this conversation right because part of the conversation requires that you know, where my own beliefs and values lie around breaks and having lunch and sustenance you need to know that that's important to me. And then I need to now ask you how was that not important? Or what way is this like these external systems clouding the importance of it for you? And then three, we need to move to a place where you agree with me that I'm like, No, you can you're not well, you should not be here. You need to have lunch or at least a fucking break are already not paying you more we need to move to the action part right if I also just want to acknowledge as you just moved from a conversation around like energy and capacity and the way my body wakes up in the morning is that like, it requires a bit of a process right like that's a four part process just to be like, go home, right if you want for me if you want to like go through the stages, can we need to like do all that work, but for me, I'm like that's the right word. Right like emergent strategy. There's always enough time for the right work. Yeah, I'm always thinking about like, what's right right now or what's right right now is that you have lunch flips right right now so you have a break and that you remember that someone in your professional career told you to go home? Because nobody ever told me to go home. Nobody told me nobody asked me do you eat? I asked. Did you eat? Did you have a break today? You look stressed you won't talk about it. You want a hug? Like what are those things that we didn't have that they can say no, right? They use this it's like it's okay. I want you to know that someone Someone is asking, like do we?

Angela Montijo 43:56

Yeah, also click reframe isn't necessarily a lie, or is it just stretching the truth? Right. Like I am on your side, what do you do for me? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, so I aside from so that's you're correct me if I'm wrong, that is your like your mentoring BSW is MSW that is your technically like nine to five, Monday. So your day job so like, can you help me? And these, this all happens within the context of school social work. It's it sounds like you're you know, it doesn't sound like you have a traditional school social work job is what I'm getting at. Right? So help me understand explain it like I'm fine.

Petra Vega 44:51

So in the role that I'm at now, and this is a role that I've had before the it's like real, it's real problematic. So I'm like, that's also part of like we get in where we fit in and then how do you change the show once you're like okay, I've seen it you know, there are and I don't know if this is like this Dubai, you but I've been part in a scene a number of organizations that primarily operate off student labor like the way in which Yeah, you do. Yeah. Problem. It's your problem. I'm like part of a of an organizing group around changing salaries, which is like somewhat connected to this group around organizing for students to get paid for internship hours, problem and I'm like, Yes. And I think as a business owner, that I'm like, Oh, this is a bad business model, but it's highly fucking profitable. And also with people who have like, social justice values, and I'm like, make it make sense people make Yes Yes. Which so in my in my role, I provide direct supervision so that we can bridge the gap between what they're learning in school and what the work that they're doing with young people. Wow,

Angela Montijo 46:00

that's amazing. And this is like, wow, that sounds awesome.

Petra Vega 46:07

It's very, it has like, like, I think to the conversation you had or the the point you mentioned around like cheese myths and gossiping, like I was just talking about the other day around, like, why can't we just see what should we talk in the office today? Right, because it's always like, it always starts as a grievance. And the mental health practices I've like and I I'm I'm always thinking about the body and like what needs to be processed. I'm like, well, we need to go through like I need to talk about my shit, right? And some of the solutions that I talked about was like, this is a bad business model. You're not paying people for the labor. This is a fucking problem. And also, I'm a cog in the wheel and like, do I want to be a smooth cog in the wheel? Do I want to be a prickly cog in the wheel, and at least some of the frequently cog in the wheel, like I will be turned in but that's gonna hurt every kind of attorney. And so for me, that looks like okay, what does it look like to advocate for these students? What does it look like to advocate for like the best kind of education training professional development for these students, so that they can be the best supports for these black and brown babies? You know, and what are the organizational conditions that we can make some advocacy isn't changes over now that we have demonstrated that we like give a shit and are capable, right that has always been about like what's this trifecta, and very emergent. strategy that I'm like, I'm also very strategic. I know what I'm here to do. And I'm gonna, just now that I'm like, Yep, I'm going to be a very pokey cog in the wheel. Like I'm in it. I will let you pay me for my labor because somebody's got to, but while I'm doing it and I'm going to work through my own anger through it as well. Like what are they gonna do fire me

Angela Montijo 47:50

right, it's not possible. You know, that's Spoken like a like a true prickly disrupter. Appreciate that. So how was create more possibilities? LLC? Gotta gotta add that in there. I just feel like it's such a baddie thing like I have an LLC. How was it born like, to just give me the creation story?

Petra Vega 48:17

Yeah, so I actually just kind of came from, we're just like weaving all of the other places that we've landed, this came from my my desire around like, how do I create change and not leave the house because of my own capacity and needs? And I'm like, How do I function? But also I don't want to leave the house. And that's literally been like the overlap of me figuring out what ways can I be part of movement that doesn't, because I was it required me to be on the front line because I was like, I've done that work. Also not the best place for me. But I'm like can do it can train other people to do it, but that's not my place. And so what is my place? And so I've actually been trying to like figure that out. And so initially, this business idea or like, someone's got to pay me something that's not my nine to five stripe is like a virtual assistant. And I was like, Oh, I think I can get shit done this. Again, the strategic part of it that like moving people through a process, getting things done that started that way. And then once I did I tried that for a little bit and that really didn't get off the ground because I they get me I get into a job and then they think the honeymoon phase gets me. Okay, they love it up on me real quick. And I'm like, what, tell me about your equity values. Okay, they get me and then I start shooting you for real bro. And I'm like, You lie. Back on the bandwagon it took me a few iterations to be like, Oh no, I need to I need to branch out and like water the seedling of an idea that I have that I'm like and through my own experimentation on like some of the things that I've named in this podcast around like okay, it doesn't have to be this way. Do I have to hoard power? Do I have to, like lead in a way that like tramples people? Do I have to be fake and performative? Do I have to act like I have it together? Like all of these things that I challenge through the ways in which I want to support people that leadership now stuff that I do in my business, but I had to do that work first, right, that I had to create my own evidence for? Like, there was something else possible, right. And I and I had to see and feel that other people could see the effect of that too, right? Because who am I trying to be at her saying that I can help you with your own leadership or your own organization when I haven't even done my own trials and tribulations of that work? It's really important for me to do and then really the thing that got me to be like, Okay, I need to head out at least for a little break, which is what I call it my working sabbatical, the year and a half that I when I left my job to go this route, that I was like, I really needed that when I when I left my last job and then did like just my business for like a year, year and a half I think it was the thing that took me over the edge was that I don't know if you know, can remember who the organization is, but they created this whole diagram about the problem women of color. Have you seen this? It's like the the woman of color enters in a white organization, the White House, okay, so I'm like, I'm a little bit but I'm like, tell me because I feel like this is gonna make perfect sense. It's good. So it's like this an organization kind of, I guess, like talk to lots of headcount, lots of conversations and so like, what happens and then labeled this like, problem woman of color syndrome, and I'm like, Damn, I've been that girl for so long. So the thing is that a woman of color comes into a predominantly white LED leadership organization. They come into the organization, the leadership really loves this person, the person gets acclimated into the into the organization starts to see that like, golly, are all the way which you say you are, right. People are like, we really care about diversity. Equity is really important, and we want to be transparent. And then the problem women have the woman of color is starting to ask questions, and we're like, actually, this You said this, but this is what's happening. And then the white leadership gets real mad at the problem of color, and then they slowly start targeting her and trying to debunk, and D pedestal some of her positions because people are like, wait a minute, we've never seen that we've ever thought about that. Right? Because like, there's gonna be women of color. It's gonna be disabled people. There's gonna be trans and non binary people that are leading the revolution because we just be seeing shit other people of color discerning and so this woman if I was coming through the organization asking all these questions and the exit is is that the white leadership fires this person or makes it so fucking uncomfortable to be there that they leave on their own terms? And I've had I've been that person that it left on those terms through that process. And I've had so many friends also do that. And so the last place that I left that I was like, Oh, we talk about that. Oh, no. Yep, I think get me Oh, no, no, no.

Angela Montijo 52:41

So Oh, my God happened.

Petra Vega 52:43

And the way that I was like, and again thinking about like, how am I taking my own tiny risk was the gate and the data that I've gathered around the woods that I want to leave, and so I was like, Okay, y'all have me fucked up, like real fucked up and I want to make sure that this leaky leaves a lasting impact. And so I wasn't the only one that had my grievances. It also was like seeing some stuff. It was predominantly women of color staff in the ones that I was supervising and working with closely and so we all decided to leave at the same time. And so we left the organization with just two other people. And like I did a whole I and I and my stake in the ground was emailing like my exit interview was like, all of the things that I said were the problems and all the ways in which I tried to create change and just being like, tell my story, like tell my story, though. Just to be clear, because that we lose so much of that when people leave particularly people who actually give a shit about the organization give a shit about the work actually are trying to aim to be values align, to lose so much of that historical knowledge because people need to go we've got to protect themselves. People got lives and shit to build and I'm not gonna let you get me but also I'm like, what happened? And who's gonna tell our story? And I was I was like, I'm going to tell my story. I refuse for other people to say how it is that I showed up at this place.

Angela Montijo 54:08

I'm so proud of you. Oh my god. This okay, I had so many reactions because okay, I know, I my first job moving here to Austin. I was running a family resource center for a nonprofit organization. And it was very that it was very, you know, everyone's like a big fan of me and I feel so good and I'm like, wow, they really respect me like they really likely oh my gosh, wow. And but that wore off like, I think I was there for maybe a year. Yeah. And that wore off my and I influenced a lot of people to leave. Because I was like y'all are noticing this right and they're gonna go that cheese may write that cheese man. They're like, actually, yeah, but we just don't even. Yeah, no one ever really says anything about it. So it's whatever and I'm like, It's not whatever. It's not whatever. Like speaka we were, you know, like, what do we eat us? Here? Like, if we gather numbers were powerful. But nothing not much changed. And so yeah, my move was to like, I was like, effective immediately. I I am and then it's like all for all of these reasons. It was like bullet point, bullet point, bullet point bullet point. And I emailed it to like all of the leadership team along with like the superintendent of the, of the school district that we were based out of, along with all of like the school partners that I had been in touch with and I was like, just so everybody knows, and up until it so notice that that that started, apparently started the practice of exit interviews at this organization. They hadn't done them before. I was the first to get an exit interview. And the person who did an exit interview for me was like, I know that you didn't ask for my advice, but just so you know, you should be more careful when you do stuff like that because people know your name, and they will always remember your name. And I was like, sir, okay, I'm gonna take that for what it's I'm gonna take that for what it's worth. So go into now school social work, I ended up obviously leaving that and it was on good terms, not nearly as as bombastic as that first one. But I do distinctly remember having my interview for my current role. And that first interview they were like, so why are you looking for like, why are you looking for work? Like what's what's got you here? And I so so clearly remember while you were speaking, it was like, it washed over me. I said, like, I'm a troublemaker. In the interview. I was like, you have to know that I am. I'm not afraid of conflict. I'm not afraid to speak up. And people have a problem with that. So like, I'm not going to go around like purposely antagonizing and instigating but like if I noticed something I am going to say something so just just hire if you hire me you got the service. Do what you want with that information. Well, that's that's not that's not on me. I'm not responsible for it. So they hired me anyway.

Petra Vega 57:35

We should and luckily, we're having this conversation because I'm like, I actually think the organization's don't recognize how much of an asset we are. I'm like you want to have troublemakers because I am pointing out the stuff to you that probably other people don't want you to see. And it's not thinking about Phrases right think about the phrase lately the Rebel Without a Cause we have so many fucking comments actually. You know? And just like that, I'm like you but the I think part of the reason that people don't like it is some of the politics I'm totally is a it's a little bit of respectability, politics and the white professionalism stuff. And I think it's because then people need to, you need to then pay attention to the ways in which you have not spoken. And that's painful, right? The fact that like I can I can name and articulate and see that through line of bullshit fuckery that either you can or you can't verbalize is painful. And I'm like, we need to do the work. Yeah, we got to do the work.

Angela Montijo 58:37

Yeah. All with the intention of liberating Yeah, like I'm not in here like trying to be disruptive or mess things up just to piss people off just for the sake of like, Oh, I'm always Yeah, that's not fun. That's not fun for me. So yeah, all with all of that goal with all the goal in mind.

Petra Vega 59:01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope people listen to this and when people are like you can't be you can't really say what you want. During interviews. I had a similar sentiment that I was like, you know, I'm gonna come up in here but you know, we need to we have to figure it out this this shoot an intern issue, right? Like they leaves me to get paid very soon. Or we need this need to not be the practice of structure, right. And then there is because I want to think about like, what's the evidence and then we were like, that stuff doesn't happen. Like you just heard two stories. Two stories just tonight, right here. Now, you know, yeah, like it was possible and something else happened, right? It's not to say that the other thing couldn't happen and you don't get the job and people are like, Fuck you and all this other stuff. But here are two stories that you now know as you're thinking about, should I say the thing?

Petra Vega 59:44

Here's two stories you have now, say the thing and if going back to what you said if the opportunity is right for you, it will it will land and if it's not for you, then there there are Come on now. There are so many other roles. There are so many other roles, just find another one and you'll be fine. Like yeah, I think about like the amount of pressure that I felt to like land somewhere as a as a baby social worker. And now I'm like, whoever will have me will have me just as I am and let that be that

Petra Vega 1:00:22

get lucky to have you that we and I get it right that there's capitalism and we got beat mouths to feed I got it. I get it stuff is expensive. But also like we have things to pay for I get it and also, we are giving our labor to these places. And I always think about like another another modeling for my students. I was like, come back at me when you need to negotiate and I'm like, even if the salary is I don't give a shit. Like they should know that. You're just not going to take anything that you're going to go back and forth. You're going to advocate for yourself that you know, you're not even that your your worth is predicated on your salary, but just like for me, it's in the practice that I just like to know that I can exercise my voice and just to see what the implications of that is. So sometimes that's five days 10k into whatever that is for me. That's the play right? It's like just want to say something what might happen let's just experiment and I and that might get you a little something that you didn't even imagine. And so for me it's always like, Yeah, I'm grateful that you give me money but also I give you my body and depending on how many years I give my mind and my my body and my bed my best ideas that this is a place that I really want to exercise what my best ideas look like in practice. Yeah, this is this. I don't know that it's an equal relationship, but it's definitely not just oh, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. Right. I feel like so many of us, probably social workers feel that way. Like so grateful. And I'm like, your gratitude is beautiful. And also you agency and power and there's like you also come with a whole host of things that isn't just like this person paying you.

Angela Montijo 1:02:01

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, I just I know what I just knew going into this. I was like, I'm Mike my consciousness cup is going to be overflow overfilled runneth over and collected I love it so much. I really genuinely I was like really looking forward to this conversation. So I was like, I just felt we're gonna go in. So I appreciate you. This has been so so wonderful. Tell the people where they can find you to tell the people how they connect with you. Yes, please, please,

Petra Vega 1:02:35

please come say hi on Instagram. That's where I like to play and try things out and see what people think and see what I think right just like being elapse, my own experience I'm at create more possibilities to not let somebody in me will say hi, because I like to be like who the fuck is this? So say hi. Say hi. When you click that follow button

Angela Montijo 1:02:54

don't be well that's all that's all we got for now. It's your I mean, you're more than welcome to join me again when you are when you are ready for it. And when I'm ready for it, obviously do it's mutual. And yeah, but for now, I think that'll that'll wrap it up for this season. One last question. I mean, I don't I'm not gonna assume that you take a winter break. But you know, tis the season. What do you what do you got going on?

Petra Vega 1:03:26

I said my last day is tomorrow. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I plan to rest and I just bought a whole bunch of painting stuff because I'm in my painting era right now. I'm like trying to tap into my creative like I feel. I feel like I play with my actions a lot and I want to play with my things that are in my brain and like colors and things. I want to talk to my friends. Just just be able to talk to my friends and connect with people. So it see what ways that I can be in solidarity with what's happening in the world right now. Like after some rest and recharge. I'm like, What's that? Okay, who needs some? I got some what do I?

Angela Montijo 1:04:03

Yes, absolutely. I really believe in that. You know, going off of going off of what we talked about with trust like at some point we have to, we have to allow others to step in and take over and and just sort of like shift on and off because, you know, then we lead into burnout. And I feel like we've just yeah, we just need that rest. It's so so necessary.

Petra Vega 1:04:27

Yeah, and it's flocking right just to end with a little emergent strategy village of visual. The Adrian Marie brown talks about flocking. There's like everyone, it's kind of a shared leadership, right. When someone in the flock moves, someone else will move in their space, right? And it's just like, right now maybe we need to move in some resting space. It's also winter, right and so if we look at nature and nature's hibernating humans like we don't fucking follow the seasons for what if we did right and just trusting that like I'm gonna get back to my spot whether my spots holding the front to back the middle. I'm gonna homeschool but for right now I'm gonna need little respite. And I'm gonna come back to the flock. And we're gonna interesting that the flak knows that too. They know a Mac. There's gonna be a lot on them. But like, my wing is tired. Yes, yes.

Angela Montijo 1:05:16

Well, thank you so much. It has been so wonderful talking to you.

Petra Vega 1:05:21

All right, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yes, yes.

Angela Montijo 1:05:24

I hope you have a wonderful night. I'm about to go feed my dogs. And that's that, bye.